Responding to a person I probably shouldn't have
Ok, first of all I apologize. When I spend an hour writing a post for a message forum I think, "Hey, I might as well toss it up on my blog too." so there is something 'new' for people to read. If you don't give a crap about reading any more of my Freemason drivel, please ignore todays post.
I previously cross-posted a series of exchanges on a message forum where some guy is literally foaming at the mouth, attacking any and all Masons. There is a lesson we are taught in Freemasonry, and it that we are to simply ignore fanatics who rail against the institution as it is both fruitless and creates disharmony.
While I do agree with this lesson in principle, I'm not certain that this sentiment encompasses the idea of an Interenet discussion forum. Of course I am not going to affect the mind of this rabid individual. However, I honestly believe, it will make some impact on the thousand-plus lurkers who are reading the thread. When this individual posts such fantastical rants and I give reasoned responses, I think it will make an impression on some rational readers.
I already have some evidence of that from just today when a Christian, who knows nothing about Freemasonry and cares nothing about it either, started calling to task his 'Christian' brother who decries any charitable act not done in the name of Jesus Christ as a work of Satan.
Now, on another note. As a Freemason I am not supposed to talk about religion in lodge. Well, (looks around his home office) I'm not in lodge right now. I have been interested in comparative religion for my entire life, and that certainly isn't going to change all of the sudden. The fact of the matter is, if I wasn't so interested in comparative religion I probably wouldn't be involved in Freemasonry in the first place. Additionally, the more I read about the history of the craft the more I realize that it is, in a sense, an encapsulation of all of the religous evolution of the human race throughout human history. That's pretty cool if you ask me.
At any rate, my young friend on the forum kind of blew a gasket or something tonight. I could have left well enough alone but, well, I didn't. I did step over the line and got into the area of some heavy sarcasm. Maybe I went too far..I don't know. Nevertheless, I had fun writing it and I will cross post it here anyway before I go to bed tonight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>.. as you may have read in my earlier posts,"MOST MASONS DONT KNOW THAT THEY ARE SINNING".
That is because they are not. Nothing that Freemasonry teaches is a sin. Just because you say so, doesn't make it true.
>>I very well believe that there are some baptized believers amongst the masons.
In fact, the vast majority of them.
>> I never made the charge that individual masons on there own time cant glorify Christ in good deeds they do in their personal life.
That is what we do, inside lodge, outside of lodge, and in Church.
>>They can only do this OUTSIDE the lodge.
This is a completely untrue statement.
>>When the MASONIC ORGANIZATION does a good deed, it is NOT IN THE NAME OF JESUS NOR CAN IT EVER BE.
It is a good work, done in the service of God.
>>So I KNOW WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT. The lodge is SYNCRETIC.
Yes, 'you know', but you aren't learning anything.
>> They bond the Moslem, the Jew, the Christian, the hindu, any religion that looks to a higher being or CREATOR.
And, now we get to the crux of the matter. You have a problem with that? You do not view all men on this earth are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve? We are not all products of one Universal creator?
There can only be *one* God. Just because some people refer to God by one name, or another, or follow one specific religion or another, doesn't change God himself.
>>Ive read their stuff plenty to know that if a VISITing FAMOUS MUSLIM MASON were to come by a local lodge that so many FINE CHRISTIAN men attended, they would have to place a KORAN around the ALTAR in the lodge next to THE HOLY BIBLE- in the masons eyes while in the lodge, the BOOKS ARE OF EQUAL VALUE.
There is no such requirement. However, your point is taken. We would welcome the Moslem as a brother. You are correct there.
I'm beginning to feel a little bit nervous all of the sudden. You sound an awful lot like you are calling for the resumption of the Inquisition.
sniff...snifff.. is that fire I smell?
>>So keep saying I dont know what I'm talking about.
You know what you are talking about but yet remain strangly confused about the reality of the situation. I find this puzzling to the extreme.
>>Read THEIR books-and just like any cult, they will say- Your taking it out of context.
It seems to me that I posted a link to all of our 'books'. And, we can hardly qualify as a cult since we have no charistmatic leaders or dogma. Every person who joins gets to be the leader, so it is kind of hard to sustain a cult without, you know, a David Koresh, Pat Robertson, Robert Schuler, or a Pope or something.
All we have is a Worshipful Master and he changes jobs every single year. Go figure....
>>And yes the eye is the eye of the egyptian god osirus.
It is the "Eye Of Providence"
>>The lodge is full of egyptian lore, as well as many prior civilizations' knowledge.
Probably true. What's wrong with that again? Human civilization has been around for a long time. Its nice to remember it.
>>They claim to be able to ENLIGHTEN a man with knowledge-secret knowledge- like the secret name of God---.
Where have you heard such a claim? I've heard that if you follow the moral prinicples of the institution it will make you a better man. I feel better.
Hey guys? Do I look better? I sure hope so.
>> I believe that is 2nd degree crap.
Nope. In the 2nd degree we talk about how through science, mathematics, art, music, and the general study of the Universe we can better understand Gods creation. A rational intellect is one of the hallmarks of the human race. Over thousands of years using our rational mind we slowly built ourselves up to the point that we can conduct a conversation over this thing we call the 'internet'. And, in that conversation, I can be subjected to a verbal inquisition demonstrating some very specious reasoning indeed...
I know that Christians tend to focus an awful lot about Jesus Christ's death. A sad story that is. However, God (Father+Son+Holy Ghost), created the entire Universe. Composed of planets, moons, stars, solar systems, and vast galaxies. I sort of think God is an awful big thing. And, when I study his creation I am awed by it.
Aren't you?
>> And the initate is told that isnt the real name- it is a substitute- they are told the name of God was lost-
Nope. That is not true. We are told this is a password that a worker would use back a long time ago to prove he was eligable to receive wages.
>>Go figure, God's name was lost, but they will eventually find out if they keep exploring.
No. We relay an ancient password used by stone masons to demonstrate proof that they had achieved a certain degree of proficiency. You don't need to make something up now my friend.
>>Question- if the secret name of God was lost, why not refer the initiate to the Bible where he will read Jehovah-Elohim-Adonai.
Well...had you read further in Freemason ritual you might have the answer you seek. And, you might be sorely dissapointed that the name is simply 'Jehovah'. Sorry to dissillusion you.
>>What could they enlighten a person about that the Holy Spirit couldnt?
Nothing at all.
>> Is their knowledge more powerful than the Holy Spirit?
Nope.
>>AND THEY STILL WONT ADMIT THEY CANT PRAY WHILE IN THE LODGE LEADING A PRAYER THAT THEY CAN END IT IN JESUS' NAME.
I admit it. Yoo Hoo!! I admit it. Listen to me.
Maybe I should use all capital letters?
I *ADMIT IT*. We don't say 'Jesus Christ' in lodge.
We say 'God'. Or, 'The Grand Architect of the Universe'.
Do you not believe that Jesus Christ is God?
God = Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ = God
By the cummutative property of linguistics, I think it is clear that referring to 'God' as, well, 'God', is more than sufficient to incorporate your belief in Jesus Christ. "God" is an inclusive term. "Jesus Christ" refers to only one specific religion.
All I can figure is that you are fundamentally opposed, to the core of your being, the idea, concept, notion, or in any possible way that two people of different religious faiths should be allowed to meet and do good works together.
Man, I'm not sure I would want to be around your house on Thanksgiving...
Do you not believe that men of different religious faiths should be allowed to meet in the same room together?
Do you not believe there is only one God?
Just checking....
As a nation, as a society, we use the term 'God' to be entirely inclusive of the one living and true God that created the Universe.
G.O.D. includes all men. Jesus Christ (apparently your belief in God) is included as well. (Please tell me you do realize we are talking about semantics by now...?)
I ask again, my brother, do you not believe that Jesus Christ is God?
>> Dont let turn the discussion another way, they dodge-deflect.
Hmmm..dodge and deflect?
You asked me twenty questions about Freemasonry that you said no Freemason would answer. I answered them all. You declared that no Freemason would show you his 'secret' ritual. I gave you a copy of the entire ritual, published almost ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS AGO!
Dodge and deflect indeed...
>>I'm only going to say this ONE MORE TIME-- the masonic ORGANIZATION does the good deeds to give their institutions an air of legitimacy.
Wrong. We do good deed because that is what the institution is about!
Why aren't you going after the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, or any other charitable organization in the world?
You really need to listen to yourself sometime.
>>Look at how many of YOU are afraid to even bring the subject up at church. Talk to an Elder who you know isnt one and relay your concerns. Their shouldnt even be a preacher out there that believes that masonry is fine in Jesus' eyes.
This is so truly sad. Can I talk to you on the phone sometime brother?
What is the source of this terrible anger and hurt? Why are you so torn up inside?
Did a Freemason kill someone in your family? Did a Freemason not throw candy to you at a Fourth of July parade?
There must be some deep seated reason for the amount of pain, hostility, and anger you demonstrate in every one of your posts.
Isn't Jesus Christ supposed to fill you with love and peace for your fellow man?
I know he has me. I can only hope and pray that Jesus Christ fills you with his love so that you can know that all men are your brothers, be they Freemasons, Salvation Army volunteers, or even Catholics.
Live in peace. And may the God of Love and Peace (Jesus Christ) delight to dwell with and bless you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I previously cross-posted a series of exchanges on a message forum where some guy is literally foaming at the mouth, attacking any and all Masons. There is a lesson we are taught in Freemasonry, and it that we are to simply ignore fanatics who rail against the institution as it is both fruitless and creates disharmony.
While I do agree with this lesson in principle, I'm not certain that this sentiment encompasses the idea of an Interenet discussion forum. Of course I am not going to affect the mind of this rabid individual. However, I honestly believe, it will make some impact on the thousand-plus lurkers who are reading the thread. When this individual posts such fantastical rants and I give reasoned responses, I think it will make an impression on some rational readers.
I already have some evidence of that from just today when a Christian, who knows nothing about Freemasonry and cares nothing about it either, started calling to task his 'Christian' brother who decries any charitable act not done in the name of Jesus Christ as a work of Satan.
Now, on another note. As a Freemason I am not supposed to talk about religion in lodge. Well, (looks around his home office) I'm not in lodge right now. I have been interested in comparative religion for my entire life, and that certainly isn't going to change all of the sudden. The fact of the matter is, if I wasn't so interested in comparative religion I probably wouldn't be involved in Freemasonry in the first place. Additionally, the more I read about the history of the craft the more I realize that it is, in a sense, an encapsulation of all of the religous evolution of the human race throughout human history. That's pretty cool if you ask me.
At any rate, my young friend on the forum kind of blew a gasket or something tonight. I could have left well enough alone but, well, I didn't. I did step over the line and got into the area of some heavy sarcasm. Maybe I went too far..I don't know. Nevertheless, I had fun writing it and I will cross post it here anyway before I go to bed tonight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>.. as you may have read in my earlier posts,"MOST MASONS DONT KNOW THAT THEY ARE SINNING".
That is because they are not. Nothing that Freemasonry teaches is a sin. Just because you say so, doesn't make it true.
>>I very well believe that there are some baptized believers amongst the masons.
In fact, the vast majority of them.
>> I never made the charge that individual masons on there own time cant glorify Christ in good deeds they do in their personal life.
That is what we do, inside lodge, outside of lodge, and in Church.
>>They can only do this OUTSIDE the lodge.
This is a completely untrue statement.
>>When the MASONIC ORGANIZATION does a good deed, it is NOT IN THE NAME OF JESUS NOR CAN IT EVER BE.
It is a good work, done in the service of God.
>>So I KNOW WHAT I"M TALKING ABOUT. The lodge is SYNCRETIC.
Yes, 'you know', but you aren't learning anything.
>> They bond the Moslem, the Jew, the Christian, the hindu, any religion that looks to a higher being or CREATOR.
And, now we get to the crux of the matter. You have a problem with that? You do not view all men on this earth are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve? We are not all products of one Universal creator?
There can only be *one* God. Just because some people refer to God by one name, or another, or follow one specific religion or another, doesn't change God himself.
>>Ive read their stuff plenty to know that if a VISITing FAMOUS MUSLIM MASON were to come by a local lodge that so many FINE CHRISTIAN men attended, they would have to place a KORAN around the ALTAR in the lodge next to THE HOLY BIBLE- in the masons eyes while in the lodge, the BOOKS ARE OF EQUAL VALUE.
There is no such requirement. However, your point is taken. We would welcome the Moslem as a brother. You are correct there.
I'm beginning to feel a little bit nervous all of the sudden. You sound an awful lot like you are calling for the resumption of the Inquisition.
sniff...snifff.. is that fire I smell?
>>So keep saying I dont know what I'm talking about.
You know what you are talking about but yet remain strangly confused about the reality of the situation. I find this puzzling to the extreme.
>>Read THEIR books-and just like any cult, they will say- Your taking it out of context.
It seems to me that I posted a link to all of our 'books'. And, we can hardly qualify as a cult since we have no charistmatic leaders or dogma. Every person who joins gets to be the leader, so it is kind of hard to sustain a cult without, you know, a David Koresh, Pat Robertson, Robert Schuler, or a Pope or something.
All we have is a Worshipful Master and he changes jobs every single year. Go figure....
>>And yes the eye is the eye of the egyptian god osirus.
It is the "Eye Of Providence"
>>The lodge is full of egyptian lore, as well as many prior civilizations' knowledge.
Probably true. What's wrong with that again? Human civilization has been around for a long time. Its nice to remember it.
>>They claim to be able to ENLIGHTEN a man with knowledge-secret knowledge- like the secret name of God---.
Where have you heard such a claim? I've heard that if you follow the moral prinicples of the institution it will make you a better man. I feel better.
Hey guys? Do I look better? I sure hope so.
>> I believe that is 2nd degree crap.
Nope. In the 2nd degree we talk about how through science, mathematics, art, music, and the general study of the Universe we can better understand Gods creation. A rational intellect is one of the hallmarks of the human race. Over thousands of years using our rational mind we slowly built ourselves up to the point that we can conduct a conversation over this thing we call the 'internet'. And, in that conversation, I can be subjected to a verbal inquisition demonstrating some very specious reasoning indeed...
I know that Christians tend to focus an awful lot about Jesus Christ's death. A sad story that is. However, God (Father+Son+Holy Ghost), created the entire Universe. Composed of planets, moons, stars, solar systems, and vast galaxies. I sort of think God is an awful big thing. And, when I study his creation I am awed by it.
Aren't you?
>> And the initate is told that isnt the real name- it is a substitute- they are told the name of God was lost-
Nope. That is not true. We are told this is a password that a worker would use back a long time ago to prove he was eligable to receive wages.
>>Go figure, God's name was lost, but they will eventually find out if they keep exploring.
No. We relay an ancient password used by stone masons to demonstrate proof that they had achieved a certain degree of proficiency. You don't need to make something up now my friend.
>>Question- if the secret name of God was lost, why not refer the initiate to the Bible where he will read Jehovah-Elohim-Adonai.
Well...had you read further in Freemason ritual you might have the answer you seek. And, you might be sorely dissapointed that the name is simply 'Jehovah'. Sorry to dissillusion you.
>>What could they enlighten a person about that the Holy Spirit couldnt?
Nothing at all.
>> Is their knowledge more powerful than the Holy Spirit?
Nope.
>>AND THEY STILL WONT ADMIT THEY CANT PRAY WHILE IN THE LODGE LEADING A PRAYER THAT THEY CAN END IT IN JESUS' NAME.
I admit it. Yoo Hoo!! I admit it. Listen to me.
Maybe I should use all capital letters?
I *ADMIT IT*. We don't say 'Jesus Christ' in lodge.
We say 'God'. Or, 'The Grand Architect of the Universe'.
Do you not believe that Jesus Christ is God?
God = Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ = God
By the cummutative property of linguistics, I think it is clear that referring to 'God' as, well, 'God', is more than sufficient to incorporate your belief in Jesus Christ. "God" is an inclusive term. "Jesus Christ" refers to only one specific religion.
All I can figure is that you are fundamentally opposed, to the core of your being, the idea, concept, notion, or in any possible way that two people of different religious faiths should be allowed to meet and do good works together.
Man, I'm not sure I would want to be around your house on Thanksgiving...
Do you not believe that men of different religious faiths should be allowed to meet in the same room together?
Do you not believe there is only one God?
Just checking....
As a nation, as a society, we use the term 'God' to be entirely inclusive of the one living and true God that created the Universe.
G.O.D. includes all men. Jesus Christ (apparently your belief in God) is included as well. (Please tell me you do realize we are talking about semantics by now...?)
I ask again, my brother, do you not believe that Jesus Christ is God?
>> Dont let turn the discussion another way, they dodge-deflect.
Hmmm..dodge and deflect?
You asked me twenty questions about Freemasonry that you said no Freemason would answer. I answered them all. You declared that no Freemason would show you his 'secret' ritual. I gave you a copy of the entire ritual, published almost ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY YEARS AGO!
Dodge and deflect indeed...
>>I'm only going to say this ONE MORE TIME-- the masonic ORGANIZATION does the good deeds to give their institutions an air of legitimacy.
Wrong. We do good deed because that is what the institution is about!
Why aren't you going after the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, or any other charitable organization in the world?
You really need to listen to yourself sometime.
>>Look at how many of YOU are afraid to even bring the subject up at church. Talk to an Elder who you know isnt one and relay your concerns. Their shouldnt even be a preacher out there that believes that masonry is fine in Jesus' eyes.
This is so truly sad. Can I talk to you on the phone sometime brother?
What is the source of this terrible anger and hurt? Why are you so torn up inside?
Did a Freemason kill someone in your family? Did a Freemason not throw candy to you at a Fourth of July parade?
There must be some deep seated reason for the amount of pain, hostility, and anger you demonstrate in every one of your posts.
Isn't Jesus Christ supposed to fill you with love and peace for your fellow man?
I know he has me. I can only hope and pray that Jesus Christ fills you with his love so that you can know that all men are your brothers, be they Freemasons, Salvation Army volunteers, or even Catholics.
Live in peace. And may the God of Love and Peace (Jesus Christ) delight to dwell with and bless you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Comments